Kim Clark

Senior Zookeeper/Educator

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  • Profile picture of Yan Wong who took this action.

    Yan Wong commented on "EOL Curators":

    @Katja Schulz: Katja - since you seem to be doing EoL stuff, could you give Patrick a nudge to merge the urgent change I've sent him to the Wikimedia Commons harvesting code, otherwise if it's due to run this weekend it could accidentally try to delete all files at the root level of the EoL harvesting server :( Oops.

    3 months ago

  • Profile picture of Katja Schulz who took this action.

    Katja Schulz commented on "EOL Curators":

    @Yan Wong: I am not aware of any special character restrictions for the ScientificName field in Darwin Core, but you could find out by running a test file through the validator: http://services.eol.org/dwc_validator/

    3 months ago

  • Profile picture of Yan Wong who took this action.

    Yan Wong commented on "EOL Curators":

    @Michаel Frаnkis: Another thought - if transcluding the category page works, you could also use this to place the Taxonavigation on the gallery page, so there would only ever be a single place to change if the taxonomy changes. I've done this for the Milvus milvus gallery page. Feel free to revert it if you think that's a bad idea.

    3 months ago

  • Profile picture of Yan Wong who took this action.

    Yan Wong commented on "EOL Curators":

    @Michаel Frаnkis: I've just tried it with your Category:Milvus milvus example (have a look at those two pages on Commons). By surrounding the Taxonavigation in <onlyinclude> tags it seems to work without imposing extra categories on the subpage...

    3 months ago • edited: 3 months ago

  • Profile picture of Michаel Frаnkis who took this action.

    Michаel Frаnkis commented on "EOL Curators":

    @Yan Wong: Yep, that (adding by hand) was what I was thinking. I can see the risk for getting out-of-sync, but that is also the case between categories and their galleries, and it is rare (I only occasionally find cases of it). Transcluding the data is an idea I'd not thought about, certainly worth considering though I have seen cases of it causing problems elsewhere (as currently formulated, it can over-categorise pages so they appear in multiple parent categories). I'll try it on one or two subcats and see what happens. There's been little or no discussion on Commons about it (unless I've missed seeing it of course!).

    Sorry, no idea about Darwin Core, I'm not familiar with it.

    3 months ago

  • Profile picture of Yan Wong who took this action.

    Yan Wong commented on "EOL Curators":

    @Michаel Frаnkis: Re: non-breaking spaces. Do you know if DarwinCore allows non-breaking spaces (and other unicode characters) in species and scientificNames? I'm assuming so, otherwise we wouldn't be allowed the × sign. But I also assume that there are limitations restricting the symbols to those basically from the latin character set, to disallow accents, chinese characters, etc in species names.

    3 months ago • edited: 3 months ago

  • Profile picture of Yan Wong who took this action.

    Yan Wong commented on "EOL Curators":

    @Michаel Frаnkis: Re: harvesting from subcategories. It sounds like you think it should be done on a case-by-case basis "by hand". The obvious problem here is duplication of the taxonomic information, with the potential for main category and the child to get out-of-sync. One way round that would be to transclude the parent category in each of the children, so e.g. simply place {{:Category:Milvus_milvus}} at the top of Category:Milvus_milvus_in_flight. In this case, you might also way to surround the taxonav box with <onlyinclude> tags too.

    This would work fine on Commons, but for the EoL harvester we would need to code up something specific to look for transcluded taxonomic category names.

    How much has this been discussed on Commons?

    3 months ago

  • Profile picture of Michаel Frаnkis who took this action.

    Michаel Frаnkis commented on "EOL Curators":

    @Yan Wong: Hi Yan - yes, a non-breaking space would be a good idea. I'd prefer a normal full width space though, as I think it looks better and is less open to misinterpretation.

    3 months ago

  • Profile picture of Yan Wong who took this action.

    Yan Wong commented on "EOL Curators":

    @Michаel Frаnkis: Should we use some other sort of space then, such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thin_space? Presumably there's an argument to have the space as no-breaking too: you wouldn't want the × and the following word to be on separate lines. It would be good to have some method to keep the × and the following word as essentially the "same word" when parsing the text.

    3 months ago

  • Profile picture of Michаel Frаnkis who took this action.

    Michаel Frаnkis commented on "EOL Curators":

    @Yan Wong: Hi Yan - "Since you're MPF let me say thanks for all your hard work on Commons classifications. I see you have been tasking yourself with the problem of overcategorization on Commons. I was wondering if we should also try harvesting from child categories of taxonomic entries on Commons"

    Thanks! ;-)
    Harvesting from subcategories ('child categories') is something I've actually been meaning to raise here for a while; yes, I think we should do it, but should be selective in what we do it for. The obvious solution is to add taxonav templates to the categories desired. I've already done so for a few, such as behavioural-based Milvus milvus in flight (170 pics), a species far more often seen in flight than on the ground (Milvus milvus: 16 pics), and location-based Pelecanus onocrotalus in Tanzania (adds an extra 22 pics of natural individuals). It's in my plans to step up the number of such subcategories I add taxonav boxes to. Conversely, I think we should not do it for subcategories like Category:XXX_in_zoos, Category:XXX_(captive), Category:XXX_(cultivated), and similar, as captive / cultivated specimens are (a) much more often misidentified than those in their native habitat, and (b) often atypical in morphology and / or behaviour. With many of such subcategories too, it brings us back to EoL's policy of not wanting to be swamped in photos of pets (a policy with which I agree strongly).

    Adding taxonav templates to suitable subcategories is obviously time-consuming, but is I reckon better (and faster) than selecting pics to add to galleries; and, as you suspect, there are many on Wiki Commons who favour abandoning galleries altogether.

    Hope this helps!

    3 months ago

  • Profile picture of Michаel Frаnkis who took this action.

    Michаel Frаnkis commented on "EOL Curators":

    @Yan Wong: Hi Yan - "Are we OK with removing the space between the × and the following genus or species name? I gather that's what's recommended by ICBN" - I'd say, definitely not. This is what used to be recommended by ICBN in the 1999 and earlier versions, but was probably also the most widely ignored specification in the ICBN. A while back I did a casual survey of botanical journals and textbooks, and found about 80% of sources checked did use a space after the hybrid symbol. This is now reflected in the changes in newer versions of ICBN (2005 & 2011), which now read:

    "H.3A.1. In named hybrids, the multiplication sign × belongs with the name or epithet but is not actually part of it, and its placement should reflect that relation. The exact amount of space, if any, between the multiplication sign and the initial letter of the name or epithet should depend on what best serves readability."

    A space on both sides of the hybrid symbol definitely serves readability best; if not included, consider e.g. the risk of confusion between the species Rosa xanthina, and the hypothetical hybrid "Rosa ×anthina"; spacing this as Rosa × anthina greatly reduces this risk. It is for this reason that Wiki Commons (and en:wikipedia) include a space after the hybrid symbol.

    3 months ago • edited: 3 months ago

  • Profile picture of Yan Wong who took this action.

    Yan Wong commented on "EOL Curators":

    @Katja Schulz: Are we OK with removing the space between the × and the following genus or species name? I gather that's what's recommended by ICBN. I'm not sure what the convention in animals is, though. The new code means that we get things like "Panthera tigris ×Panthera leo" for zoological names, which isn't ideal. But short of coding different procedures for viruses, bacteria, plants/fungi and animals – something I'd rather avoid – I think that might be the best we can do.

    3 months ago

  • Profile picture of Yan Wong who took this action.

    Yan Wong commented on "EOL Curators":

    @Michаel Frаnkis: Since you're MPF let me say thanks for all your hard work on Commons classifications. I see you have been tasking yourself with the problem of overcategorization on Commons. I was wondering if we should also try harvesting from child categories of taxonomic entries on Commons, such as Category:XXX_in_zoos, but that's likely to cause problems with Taxa such as Category:Homo_sapiens. At the moment I'm assuming that any taxa rich enough to have lots of media files in sub-categories should have a decent gallery page, and EoL will be able to harvest the best images from there. If you have time, have a look at the 3rd paragraph of "Category use" on http://eol.org/info/133 and see if you think what I've written there is a sensible approach. In the back of my mind I'm worried if people start to abandon the idea of galleries on Commons.

    You (and entomological minded curators) also might be interested to know that once Liné manages to move {{Lepidoptera}} & {{Coleoptera}} to use Taxonavs (he thinks this might be in September, see https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Liné1#Lepidoptera_and_Coleoptera_templates), the EoL harvester should pick up about 16000 more taxonomic pages, and goodness knows how many more images that we're missing at the moment.

    3 months ago • edited: 3 months ago

  • Profile picture of Michаel Frаnkis who took this action.

    Michаel Frаnkis commented on "EOL Curators":

    @Yan Wong: Hi Yan - "(I see someone's changed it, are you MPF :)" - yep, that's me! I took the taxonav out of the page, as of course cultivars are not biological taxa, so shouldn't have any taxonav. I don't know how many other cultivar pages / categories will have been given taxonavs; fortunately probably not very many.

    3 months ago

  • Profile picture of Michаel Frаnkis who took this action.

    Michаel Frаnkis commented on "EOL Curators":

    @Yan Wong: Hi Yan - re "How are these distinguished in wikimedia Taxonavigation boxes? Do people put Subspecies | salzmannii, Variatas | mongolica, etc...." - sorry, missed this one! Yes, the template inserts the "subsp." and "var.". And yes, species can have both subspecies and varieties; e.g. Pinus nigra subsp. salzmannii var. corsicana for the Corsican Pine.

    3 months ago

  • Profile picture of Yan Wong who took this action.

    Yan Wong commented on "EOL Curators":

    @Michаel Frаnkis: Yep - the problem is that the cultivar name was listed in the "Varietas" field (I see someone's changed it, are you MPF :) so unless I code up something to specifically exclude varieties with apostrophes, this will end up begin treated as a normal species name. Perhaps that's OK, though, as it won't end up mapping to any taxonomic hierarchy on EoL.

    3 months ago

  • Profile picture of Michаel Frаnkis who took this action.

    Michаel Frаnkis commented on "EOL Curators":

    @Yan Wong: Hi Yan, That one is a cultivar; very low priority for EoL (much like we ask people not to add photos of their pets), I'd not bother with any harvesting criteria for picking them up.

    3 months ago

  • Profile picture of Katja Schulz who took this action.

    Katja Schulz commented on "EOL Curators":

    @Yan Wong: Thanks Yan, that's great news. Hopefully, the hybrid names will get their own pages. We should check once the new harvesting code is implemented.

    3 months ago

  • Profile picture of Yan Wong who took this action.

    Yan Wong commented on "EOL Curators":

    @Katja Schulz: I've just submitted the git push request to get subspecies and varieties properly pulled off Wikimedia images (https://github.com/EOL/eol_php_code/pull/91/files). Once it's been OKed by Patrick or Dima, and the harvester run, then all should be peachy. It also includes code to get hybrids working, so we should end up pulling pictures like https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Orchis_x_bornemannii._Munciarrati_-_Madonie._15_Aprile_2007_(27).jpg with a scientificName of "Anacamptis ×gennarii nothosubsp. bornemanniae (Asch.) H.Kretzschmar, Eccarius & H.Dietr. (2007)". Is that OK?

    3 months ago

  • Profile picture of Yan Wong who took this action.

    Yan Wong commented on "EOL Curators":

    @Katja Schulz: Ah, thanks. This is all rather tricky stuff to parse. Patrick hinted that if we move to DwC-A format, then we can markup the author names separately, which might help in the future. On the much brighter side, I think I have code that correctly sets the EoL scientific name for subspecies and varieties. Just testing it now, and dealing with notho-taxa, which I hadn't noticed as a problem before.

    3 months ago