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Marcus Guidoti commented on an older version of "Sycamore Lace Bug":
@Patrick Coin: Yes, you are definitely right: this illustration from the Smithsonian isn't of any Gargaphia species. In fact, it's of another subfamily instead (Cantacaderinae). This was published in 1965 on the last world catalogue, by Carl Drake (as you might know, the most prominent taxonomist who worked with Tingidae) and Florence Ruhoff. But the first illustration, the smallest, showing a metaesternal lamina "hearts-like" form, is actually from Gargaphia tiliae. This kind of metasternal lamina shape is typical of Gargaphia species. The big illustration is of a Cantacader species. I'll mark as untrusted, and comment this on that page, thanks for the warning. About the rounded paranota, I don't know if you're familiar with others Gargaphia species, but, this kind of paranota (rounded... I'm not doing any observations on cells rows, paranota angles, which is probably important character for identify species in Gargaphia) is also common on this genus (for example, http://eol.org/data_objects/18084833). But, as I said, if you guys are identifying this specimens as G. tiliae for a long time based on morphology and biological information, you're probably right. As a never worked with Gargaphia, don't have the material for further studies, and, there's no recent taxonomic revisions on the taxon, there's not much that I can do. Thanks for the comments on my english skills, it's quite challenge learn a new language by yourself.
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Patrick Coin commented on an older version of "Sycamore Lace Bug":
@Marcus Guidoti: Thanks for your comments. I certainly hear you I am by no means an expert. Regarding the Gargaphia (tiliae), it appears to me that the illustration from the Smithsonian http://eol.org/data_objects/18100036 appears to show a late instar nymph (?) or is in error. There are a couple of published photographs and illustrations of G. tiliae adults (see references at http://bugguide.net/node/view/67165) and they show the large rounded paranota, lacking in the Smithsonian illustration on EOL. Putative G. tiliae is quite common in eastern North America, and we've all been identifying it to that species based on morphology and the host plant. As you mentioned, the host association may not always be reliable. Your English is fine--much better than my Portuguese, though I can manage a bit of Spanish!
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Marcus Guidoti commented on an older version of "LLB's":
@Patrick Coin: Hi Patrick. I had just reply your comment in the Corythucha ciliata's page. Well, about ID based on host plant association, this was used on Tingidae over the time, but now we have some cases that show this as a untrusted practice. There's some examples of tingidae species, with epithet related to a specific plant species because of a exclusive host plant association, that more data show at least a oligophagous species instead of a monyphagous one. The two species of Psilobyrsa, a neotropical genera exclusive from Brazil, are a example. I never work specifically with this genera (Gargaphia). In fact, I don't achieve any reliable ID in the Museu de Ciências Naturais da Fundação Zoobotânica do Rio Grande do Sul (MCN, institution that my co-advisor works and where I help to curate the Tingidae collection) by the size of the genera and lack of recent taxonomic revisions. As the type specimens of the Gargaphia species is spread around the world in many scientific institutions, and a lot unavailable for loan, I'll probably get stuck with the original descriptions. This is not the best practice on taxonomy, and for this reason, I don't ID the Gargaphia spp on MCN yet. Anyway, based on photos, I cannot get any trusted ID. It's so many species and characters. I cannot tell you, with a reliable opinion, that is a Gargaphia tiliae and not a new one, for example. But, if you or anyone are confident to ID this species as G. tiliae, that's a nice contribuiton to EOL. As I had said on the other post, if you have any contributions to do on EOL you are more than invited to do so. And our comments will be saved on the taxon's pages for any further visitor read and get his own conclusions about the reability of the ID based on this photo. That's, in my opinion, a really important tool. I thank you for the comments, this certainly will improve the data about Tingidae on EOL. Um grande abraço, Marcus
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Marcus Guidoti commented on an older version of "Sycamore Lace Bug":
@Marcus Guidoti: Sorry about the huge post bellow!
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Marcus Guidoti commented on an older version of "Sycamore Lace Bug":
@Patrick Coin: First of all, thank you for submitting a comment on a Tingidae page. It's really nice initiate a debate over here, and it's always stimulating when you get in touch with people who're interested in lace-bugs. Secondly, I've to say that I noticed your huge contribution on BugGuide. It's a really nice website, and I'm jealously that I don't see anything like that for bugs in Brazil (but there's for birds, for example). You take excelente photos. It's really nice what you do! But, yes, I had click on the "full-size image" link. And actually, Tingidae is a perfect taxon for image-ID practice. You see, until now, most of the original species descriptions were based exclusively on external characters of dorsal view. The only problem is the size of a adult lace-bug. It's really small, as you know, and some character may be undercover in photos, but this is a wonderfull one. My flinch here is because of the large size of the genus Corythucha, and the fact that the last taxonomic revision on the genera date back on 1920's. You know, there's over 50 valid species in this days, mostly occurring on North America. Recently, it was sent to me a Corythucha sp. from México and it actually is a new species, based on differences on the pattern of spines on the anterior margen of hemelytra and paranota. Another one was found in Santa Catarina, Brasil, last month. The photo doesn't show everything about the specimen and for this, a priori, make anything possible for this one, even in a well-studied taxa in this area, such is Corythucha for North America. My point here is that is a big genus to confirm a reliable ID based on a single photo. I've chose curate the data on EOL in a very reliable way, based on what they show and what's take to come to responsable ID in scientific conditions (lab, stereomicroscope, ID-keys, recent revision work, etc). The DATA over here could be in use for others to reach taxonomic ID, even for scientific purposes, who knows? The mission of EOL states "...shares knowledge in an open, freely accessible and trusted digital resource". So, it's, in my opinion, a huge responsability be curator of the information around here. But I cannot confirm everything around here. So, if you worked with the genus, or the species, or had a truly reliable confirmation about your hypothesis for the ID, please, I encourage you to change anything and increase the contributions for Tingidae in EOL. Thanks and sorry by my english skills, I'm a self-study learner. As we say here in Brazil, um grande abraço!
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Patrick Coin commented on an older version of "Sycamore Lace Bug":
@Marcus Guidoti: Did you click on the "full-size image" link--it is a pretty detailed image, though it is hard to match the illustration shown. It is, of course, difficult to get a perfect photo of such a small insect (moving) in the field. I appreciate that it often takes laboratory work to get species-level ID in many groups, of course.
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Patrick Coin commented on an older version of "LLB's":
@Marcus Guidoti: I think we were all identifying these presumptively based on host plant association--they were on Basswood, Tilia. Other characters, such as the large size, rounded paranota, dark apical segment of the antenna, and large transparent cells on forewings, are consistent with marks noted by references quoted on BugGuide, and also expert ID's there. Did you click on the "view full size image" link on the right? That will get you a pretty detailed image of these things.
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Marcus Guidoti marked an older version of "LLB's" as untrusted on the "Gargaphia tiliae" page.
Reasons to untrust: misidentified -
Marcus Guidoti marked an older version of "LLB's" as hidden on the "Gargaphia tiliae" page.
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